Hello everyone, welcome to my storytime! Some of you might remember this post from when I published it on Karandi’s blog. I’m repurposing my old essays for those that didn’t get a chance to read them then. I hope you enjoy it!
Over a year ago now (it was much more recent when I first wrote this) I watched a Youtube video by this guy who has a comedy tv show review/commentary channel. He basically picks a show, watches a bit and pokes lighthearted fun at it with these little cartoon avatars. It’s a cute channel and I enjoy it as an occasional distraction even though I don’t think I’ve seen any of the series he talks about.
Anyways, he recently (over a year ago…) made a sort of behind the scenes video where he talked about navigating international copyright laws. How different large distribution companies tend to deal with fair use and why he avoided certain shows despite frequent requests. It should be said that this guy is American born but lives in Japan.
As such, the subject turned to anime and why he never reviewed *any* even though it was the single most requested topic from viewers by far. At this point I was expecting some specific limitations of Japanese Intellectual Property laws which would apply to Japanese creators and this being somewhat connected to my work, I was very interested.
Instead, he found a polite way to say, anime fans are the worst! What he said was that the anime kids are “next level”, which was indeed a very nice way to put it. He then explained that he had done a very short essay video a long time ago, when his channel was tiny, going over some of the history of Anime and stating that it was his belief that modern Anime simply doesn’t live up to the shows from the late 80s and 90s.
**** Just a small personal aside here. He also stated that this was a common belief among anime essayists and reviewers and I have indeed seen it expressed a lot. However, despite the fact that I think this guy and I are similar in age and have had similar anime experiences, I strongly disagree with this. I believe every era has had its share of strong and weak shows. This said, just by virtue of increased output, there is more variety and I find contemporary works tend to buck some traditional tropes and try things I had not seen before. Kill la Kill, for instance, came out in 2013/2014, just off the top of my head, and is generally well-liked and not considered appallingly derivative… I went on a big tangent here. If you actually want to know my views on this subject, let me know. I get pretty passionate when people dismiss art based on age. It’s just a number man….****
Back to the subject at hand. Even though I may not share that opinion, it’s both pretty common and pretty tame. However, it seems the poor guy received a deluge of hate, all the way to death threats based on that only. He mentioned not having gotten such a negative reaction before or since, despite his channel having gotten pretty big in the meantime.
We hear these types of stories all the time. Otaku act all meek and wounded but they bite! They play the victim but they will rip into you at the drop of a hat. I have an occasionally confrontational job with a huge amount of delicate politics to take into account but I never watch my words as carefully as when I interact with anime fans. I consider my blog a bit of a safe haven (within reason) but whenever I stray elsewhere I walk on the most fragile of eggshells.
So are we really the worst? I should include myself. You saw that paragraph up there being all grumpy about the old versus new anime debate. And I’m milktoast. I can just imagine how a more passionate person would react! And if we are, is it ok to be the worst?
The short answer is no. Death threats immediately invalidate your opinion. If a fascist dictator can advocate for genocide more calmly and eloquently than you discuss your entertainment preferences, something went wrong. Time to take a deep breath and try again.
But being particularly passionate and protective of a medium you enjoy shouldn’t be a bad thing by default. Heck, it’s one of the things I like about anime fans! So how did it go from, look at all the pretty colours to all those that disagree shall fertilize my garden?
I’ve always thought that part of it is due to the fact that anime is an emergent market. It’s still a little fringe. The world seems to be absolutely set on convincing me that anime is just not very popular in Japan and is actually more widespread outside the country, which means it’s not that popular anywhere. And it never was, so there’s no respectable history to fall back on, like theatre or opera. My theory is that anime fans get so overzealous when protecting anime because they feel like no one else will.
That’s just a personal theory though and it still doesn’t make the behaviour any more acceptable.
I’m always very skeptical when people single out anime fans as the worst. Yes, I’ve had a few unpleasant experiences with people that were aggressive in their fandoms and that was frightening. For the most part, it’s just the usual mix of low-grade misogyny, insecure people being gatekeepers to show they are better smarter fans and just harmless excessive enthusiasm for favourite franchises. That’s the sort of thing you see in just about every community.
Just ask anybody that has any sort of public presence!
So why does our bad reputation persist? We’re a bunch of self-identifying nerds and dorks who have a soft spot for cute things! I understand that in the specific case of the video commentator I mentioned it may simply have been a mix of unique circumstances and perceptions.
The video came out when he was a much much smaller channel so bad comments are bound to stick out more. Being a Japan-based creator who does blogs on the country he probably did attract some hardcore anime fans but since he doesn’t talk about it often, the only ones that would have stuck around on that basis were the extremely passionate ones with enough free time to do so. You get what I’m saying. There are a few anitubers, some of which have pretty controversial views and their comments section are…I was going to say fine but let’s go with completely normal for the platform. Youtube has some issues that have nothing to do with anime.
However, whether earned or not our reputation cannot be denied and that’s not great. Maybe we should get an anime ambassador to rehab our image. Maybe we could all be anime ambassadors, I know a lot of people around here that don’t fall into the “worst” category.
What do you think, is our reputation for aggressive lashing out and gatekeeping justified? Can we fix it? Will we?
Two factors I can think of:
The first is that the angry reaction comments are going to stand out (a death threat will make you take notice), and you’re likely to react more strongly with something you disagree with. And those comments will breed more of the same. On one extreme you’ll get death threats, and the positive will be “Yay! I love Alien Maids in Spaaace! too!” Though you’re more likely to just get a like from the latter.
Second is if you keep hearing the same putdowns, you’ll reach a point where you’ll finally react to them. I’m getting to the point where I should set up a hotkey for “If Precure was a shonen series, you’d be losing bladder control over it.” :p
Wait Precure isn’t a Shonen????
Otaku are not the worst; it’s just that people stereotype the peculiar attitudes and behaviors of people who are into anime, manga, and video games in which otakus are seen in a negative light. Not all otakus are bad since there are also some good otakus out there.
First, in response to “If you actually want to know my views on this subject, let me know” — yes, I’d like to read your perspective on that subject!
Second, I think you hit the nail on the head with “Maybe we could all be anime ambassadors.” I think the best way forward is to try to be a good role model and encourage the right behaviors.
I’m convinced attacks just don’t work. Being polite and encouraging folks to share ideas? That often works!
Right!?! At least that’s how it should be
Hmm, this is an interesting question! I think there is a small and rather vocal group of anime fans that do go too far and are quite raunchy with their comments concerning anime. But I also try to be conscientious of where they are coming from. A lot of the most aggressive fans are usually pretty new to the media and so their views are naturally a bit extreme. I met this type of person quite often while working for the library. A new reader would come into the library saying that either the book that was recommended to them was the “best book ever, I love reading!” or they would claim it was “the worse book ever, this is why I hate reading!” but the reality was that they had read so few books that all books fell on either extremes of best or worst. Yet when an avid reader commented on a book that was recommended to them, they almost never had extreme views on a book. They would say something like, “it wasn’t my favorite, but it was pretty good.” or “I’m not sure I like this writer, but it certainly wasn’t the worst I’ve read.” When a person has more than a few books/anime series to compare with each other, their opinions become less black and white and more like an ocean of gray. Hmm, that sounds rather bleak doesn’t it? What I mean is when people get more experience with a particular something, their points of view become less extreme. So I try to be patient with these over zealous fans, because eventually they will either loose interest in anime or learn more about it, and with time they will become less extreme.
That’s a very good point, I hadn’t seen it that way. Also, working in a library sound kind of great
The line between being toxic or just a passionate fan can be thin sometimes. If I am outraged by a specific video I won’t ever voice it on the channel. Its the person’s own opinion, many people seem to think their own opinions go above and beyond. Luckily I am not elitist enough in any form of genre to be able to take part in full on discussions, neither do I have the time…
Great essay as always Irina
I’m with you on that
I wish I had that type of time
Honestly, I’ve been under the impression that the Marvel die-hards/Disney adults overtook anime fans as the worst sort of fandom. That might just be my super biased experiences between Instagram comment sections (you don’t disrespect the mouse EVER on a Disney focused account, even if it’s valid), and the rather… concerning comments that Marvel die-hards make.
Anyway, regarding anime fans – I think a lot of fans get a bit too sensitive about their favorites. I’ll readily admit I was that type of fan for awhile too. Like I don’t know a single anime fan that wouldn’t jump on the making fun of SAO or Ex-Arm these days, to the point where they would probably hurt the feelings of people who like those series in person or online. At the same time, the minute you say even something as neutral as “I understand this anime has it’s audience, that audience does not include me” about their favorite series- it’s suddenly a problem. The “you have no taste”, “what’s your problem with *insert theme in that series here*” come out. It’s a mix of hypocrisy, and honestly being able to dish insult/opinions/hot takes, but not being able to handle it when it’s reversed.
I’d also argue that much like super heroes and video games; anime and manga are mainstream. The fact that I can go to an American super retailer like Walmart or Target and find Demon Slayer or Naruto merch/anime/manga without too much trouble speaks to that. Anime fans, myself included, need to get over the “this is so niche, and if I don’t defend it who will?” mentality. Like plenty of people, fans or not, can recognize it at this point. There will always be someone defending even the most god awful anime – it doesn’t have to be you lol.
Plus don’t anime fans have more pressing issues at hand? Like ending the Subs vs. Dubs debate once and for all, or arguing about a show being yuri-bait or not? Lol